Casey / Santorum Debate in Philadelphia

Here are my rough notes on the debate between Sen. Rick Santorum (RS) and Bob Casey (BC) in Philadelphia. As always my apologies for any errors or misinterpretations. Enough hours passed between taking the notes and cleaning them up for posting that my memory did not allow me to fill in all the missing pieces. So they are rougher than usual. My apologies for that as well.

Sponsored by WPVI, LVW of PA and The National Constitution Center. Rebroadcast on PCN. Moderators. Jim Gardner and George Stephanopoulos

No opening statements.


Q1: Quoting BC, The US had to “do everything possible” to make sure North Korea and Iran did not get nuclear weapons. What lines would they have to cross before you would vote for military option?

BC: Make sure government exercises every option on the table. Diplomatic, economic and political power. All of those levers degraded by this government. 3 Axis of evil, focused on weakest of the three. Will this admin competently exercise all options before using the military option. We should listen to military experts.

RS: Thanks debate sponsors. Great to be here. The Constitution Center is a great example of teamwork, Rendell, Specter and RS together delivered for PA in Constitution Center. BC not answering question. BC against missile defense system. BC against bunker busting bombs. RS in favor of both.

BC: You’ve just heard more of the same, more fiction. Not against bunker busting bombs. Must do everything possible to keep North Korea from advancing. RS didn’t answer the question.

RS: With respect to Iran, RS would strike without question. Iran cannot have nuclear weapon. Strike before they get that weapon

BC: RS talking about Iran but not saying how he would close the Halliburton loophole.

Q2: On Iraq, agree to talks with insurgents and/or agree with new bill???

RS: Cong. Frank Wolfe and RS sent letter to pres asking them to work with Iraq ?? have a second look.. Partitioning something to look at. Don’t talk with insurgents, don’t negotiate with terrorist. We have not been attacked in 5 years because we have been taking it to them.

BC: RS more of the same. RS satisfied with where we are. One measure of accountability is to replace Don Rumsfeld. Need to change course in Iraq. Need clear and measurable benchmarks. RS rubberstamping. No, we should not negotiate w/ insurgents. Work for political settlement.

RS: Two questions, 2 nonanswers from BC. Rumsfeld follows policy doesn’t make policy. Authored 2 bills [did not get names]. Already illegal for Halliburton to do business in Iraq.

BC: prevents American business with subsidiaries from doing business in Iran.

Q3: James Baker says you should talk to your enemies. Bilateral talks with North Korea?

BC: At beginning of the current administration we should have had a stronger engagement. Now game has changed dramatically. Don’t take any option off the table. RS joked about North Korea this summer. This is serious. You should not joke.

RS: 3 for 3. BC says stay the course. Absolutely no bilateral talks. Need to engage the North Koreans. A website says BC opposes bunker busting bombs. I did not joke about N. Korea.

BC: You don’t joke about these things. In RS statement about North Korea he took a shot at me, not something a senator should do.

Q4: Military leaders say the military is stretched thin. Would a 3 pronged war require a draft?

RS; At odds with admin for 2 years. Iran Freedom of Support act. Because of Iran’s sectarian violence. Iran is bad actor in region not just in nuclear program but in others as well. Administration opposes Iran Free of Support act. Tough sanctions against businesses that do business with Iran, help pro-democracy in Iran. Worked with exiled community in Iran. Now we have a new Iran policy thanks to me.

BC: I agree with much of what he said about the bill. Problem is loophole still there, needs to be plugged. Before we jump to military option we should bring every possible sanction to bear. We could stop them from developing ballistic missiles. 40% of Iran’s gas comes from outside of the country. This could be tough sanction.

RS: As state treasurer of PA BC invested funds in Halliburton. Lautenberg, no subsidiaries of US companies can invest in Iran. Only subsidiaries separate from American companies can invest.

Q5: The President says we are engaged in divisive struggle of the century. War on Islamic fascism. Is this right?

BC: I do think that virtually every Am agrees that the biggest threat of our age is terrorism. We must do all we can to confront that threat. Islamic jihadists. Have outlined specific steps we can take to confront this threat. Wants to double number of special forces to hunt down and kill terrorists. Intercept their weapons. Strategy not terminology.

RS: It is important in a war to define your enemy. We’ve sold American public short in not being direct in letting them know about religious zealotry we are fighting. I’ve given speeches all over the state. Must respect and know our enemy. [follow up, is term Islamic fascist alienating people?] We must call a spade a spade.

BC: I still don’t think RS is telling us anything new. We need a specific plan. We should have an energy strategy. This admin talks about the greatest threat of our age but uses it to divide the country.

RS to BC: In South East Pennsylvania health care very important. We are losing doctors. You have opposed liability reform and caps. You are for importation of drugs.

BC: You and I disagree. I oppose caps on damages, especially in cases of negligence or intentional damage. We have to make sure we have a real strategy on health care. On prescription drugs, the safe FDA-approved importation from places like Canada.

BC to RS: tomorrow afternoon I will release 5 years of tax returns. Will you do the same?

RS: I will do so. I have to find them. It will be embarrassing for me, given the amount of money of I have.

Q6: RS voted against senate immigration bill with pathway for citizenships, and legitimizes underground economy. You can’t jail or deport 11 million people. Isn’t it tacit approval?

RS: Doesn’t believe in amnesty. First need border security. Voted for every single border agent that department said they could train. Built more detention facilities. Voted for a fence. Second, improve employer verification system. Third, set up a temporary worker program.

BC: This question has become central to RS’s campaign. More about hypocrisy than anything else. RS in DC for 16 years but only discovered this issue 6 weeks ago that he thinks will get him reelected. RS voted against border control. Under current senate leadership worksite arrests down, increase in undocumented immigrants, fines against employers down 99%.

RS: Voted for Specter employer id bill, replaced by another. Wants an issue to be part of this campaign instead of where my children sleep at night. Look at my record on immigration.

Q7: Is social security in crisis? Privatization or raising age limit?

RS: BC talks about a new direction – do nothing on social security. RS believes social security in crisis over the long term. Start to see huge deficits in social security. Tried to put together bipartisan plan. 10 years ago Bill Clinton said it was a crisis. BC says grow the economy and raise taxes. RS for personal retirement accounts, against raising retirement age.

BC: I agree there is a huge problem. Crisis is RS’s privatization scheme. Does nothing for solvency. AARP would tell you that. We should stop the thievery from social security system to finance deficits. Growing the economy is part of it. Must stop privatization.

RS: His answer is do nothing. I authored Social Security Guarantee Act. Won’t cut benefits now. Crisis out a few years. Takes current surplus and lets people invest.

Q8: Gun violence plague Philly and large cities. Gun control?

BC: Must focus on solutions that will work. New gun laws not the answer. Areas of consensus: must not try to eliminate safe and drug free schools act, must not cut back COPS program (put more cops on streets), Philly has 5200 gun dealer, ATF only has 27 agents on the street. We need to fund more ATF agents. Lynn Abraham has supported my campaign.

RS: FOP and PA State Troopers both endorsed me. ATF agent walked up to RS and said only 22 gun dealers in Philly. Worked with Lynn Abraham to reduce gun violence. Worked on anti-gang violence. Stop internet predators. School Safe act – background checks on everyone who works in a PA school.

BC: I think we increase budget for ATF. Endorsed by Philly FOP.

Q9: The Heritage Foundation says GB and GOP Congress has increased spending. What can be done?

RS: We have had problems with spending. We’re in a recession and a war and some severe natural disasters. Cut deficit in half in 2 years. Criticized for cutting things but that’s how you cut costs. Voted for Medicare drug program even though expensive. Would cut Medicaid reduction, problems in medicare and Medicaid. Need to cut fraud and abuse.

BC: Important question. Only 1 person who has voted for big deficits and that is RS. Voted to incur debt to foreign governments. Makes us more dependent on those countries when we are trying to fight terrorism, etc. Drug coverage was a giveaway to special interests. Donut hole is a nightmare.

RS: Costs came in 1/3 less than we thought. BC didn’t say where we’d cut.

BC: We can cut on consultants and contractors, cut pork, oil company subsidies. Plan to reduce deficit.

Q10: Oil and dependence on foreign countries.

BC: Most important thing is to make a full commitment to energy independence. Vote for legislation to pursue renewable sources of energy. CAFÉ standards, get that up to 40 mpg. Combat global warming. RS doesn’t think it’s a threat.

RS: BC supports Kyoto, which would destroy manufacturing economy of PA. Mandatory CAFÉ standards destroying tool and die manufacturing, decimate economy of Western PA. Need environmentally and economically friendly.

BC: CAFÉ standards central to the strategy to be committed to this. We can keep environment clean and keep economy strong.

Q11: Why do political ads have to be so negative?

RS: I was a leader on a coal to liquid fuels thing. The first 6 weeks of the campaign ran only positive ads. BC’s gubernatorial campaign was most negative in PA history. Has nothing concrete, dodges and bobs and weaves. My commercials lay out where I want to go. BC only does 2 events a week. I do 2 events a day by 10 a.m.

BC: I lost that race and he should learn something from it. RS is a negative campaigner. One editorial board called one of his ads “particularly sleazy.” This has to be about the people out there. It’s a joke what RS has been saying.

Q12: Ethics in government. Congress can’t police themselves need independent ethics commission?

BC: I have a specific ethics plan. More disclosure. Should shut down K Street program. More sunlight and more scrutiny.

RS: I led the charge on ethics in the senate. Most papers favorably commented on it.

Closing statement:

BC: Thanks sponsors and panelists. Profound difference between candidates. RS stay the course. BC for change, new agenda.

RS: I’ve worked hard for people of PA. Projects all over the state. I had to earn this job, not given to me because of my last name. Grew up in public housing on grounds of VA Hospital.