Shapiro and Petri on PCN Talking Budget

State Reps Josh Shapiro (D-153) and Scott Petri (R-178) were on the PC Call-In Show on June 29th to discuss the state budget. I taped it and watched it later. These are rough notes from the show, and not presented as a transcript. As usual, my apologies in advance for any errors or misconceptions. Any numbers presented here should especially be double checked. At present you can watch the show via the pcn website (www.pcntv.com). As for tie notes, Shapiro’s tie was blue, Petri’s burgundy, provided the color on my tv was accurate. Sometimes it isn’t.


Host: Francine Schertzer

Our guests this evening are Scott Petri and Josh Shapiro

JS: we continue to talk a lot and we continue to sharpen our pencils and figure out where our bottom line points are. The important part is getting a good budget passed. Disappointed it won’t be done tomorrow but want to get it done quickly.

SP: discharge motions called, might be necessary, to bring a bill out of committee to force a vote on it.

FS; discharge resolution. How does that work

SP: we haven’t done it for a budget since I’ve been in office sine 2002. 25 members standup and say they want a discharge resolution. The idea is that we need to have a vehicle, a bill to discuss. We are both on committee and spend months discussing the governor’s budget. Here’s the interesting posture, neither of those bills (gov and senate) will ultimately be budget. Senate bill 850 currently out of balance by somewhere around $400 million so there is no bill out there that is constitutionally sufficient to meet the mandates where we are to where we need to be

JS: Every year the gov presents his budget in Feb then the legislature has months to get together in the appropriations committee and we vote in June or July but now less revenue has come in than we expected. Now we have shortfall. How do we work our priorities? We find ourselves having to pare back in meeting the needs of Pennsylvanians. Getting 4 caucuses and governor together to reach an accord under the specter of $3.2 b shortfall. Where do you cut or raise taxes to bring in new revenue

Fs: why no bill on house floor yet?

JS: State Rep Dwight Evans [chair of appropriations committee] doing a great job in giving us the knowledge to make a sound judgment. As to the process I’ll leave that to the chairman. He will bring a bill forward when in has a chance of passing. Find areas of consensus

SP: I echo a lot of what JS has said. It is very interesting. We actually have a very complicated layer. In 2006 we spend around 26B dollars. We have to have a balanced budget. Think about being the person that has the job of projecting the revenue we get this year. Who know. We may pick a number and it may be more revenue than we receive. We have a number from last year. We have proposals and then federal stimulus.

FS: Gov met with legislators what being discussed?

JS: what everyone is trying to do is reach a consenus on number. If priorities exceed revenue what do you cut or raise. In discussions leaders come and meet with us. We discuss.

FS: what number are you comfortable with?

SP: gives a number but worried about revenue. What are rules regarding federal stimulus. Can we spend some of the money earmarked for special education, usually for one time items, for continuing programs and then what happens when fed money gone? If school districts don’t know what money can be spent for, they are in a quandary. How apart are we? Fathoms. Are we going to have tax increases, income tax or sales, only forms of revenue that can generate the kind of money we need

JS: We want to look at responsible spending. Continue to make investment sin public education, health care, long term investments, grow our way out of this.

Caller: cell phones, banning use of hand held cell phones while driving, tractor trailers taxed to drive on highways, why not tax cars by weight as heavier cars use more highways.

JS: working hard on cell phone / texting ban. Last vote came up 3 votes short. As for weight, do require additional licensing, etc on overweight or extra large vehicles

SP: voted with him on cell phone ban and for distracted driver version. Nationally we are going to change the way we fund highways. Highway contactors would like to see gas tax. Less and less money from feds, need new methodologies for highway money. For this year we will spend about same amount as last year but much of that is stimulus. Contractors are big employers. Toll roads a possibility.

Caller: state employee. Went through this last year. Tagged as essential employee. Worried about not being paid.

SP: also concerned. If budget debate is protracted there won’t be monies for nonessential employees. Gov said he wouldn’t furlough workers. At some point state workers won’t be able to get paid and impact on people not showing up for work

JS: we know state workers work hard, unfortunately state employees end up being pawns. Partisan back and forth. Revenues going down and change during negotiations. We want the important work you do to continue.

SP: this isn’t about winners and losers but losers and bigger losers. Some people say we can cut out way out of it but there are consequences of that. We can’t know all the pain that will occur from cuts. Repercussions to our constituents.

FS: question on funding

JS: people probably won’t begin to see a difference until a few weeks and then services people depend on will start to slow or freeze.

Caller: on social security. How about no more raises for you and no more perks. Our mayor in Scranton is spending money to build a treehouse. Stop tax breaks for businesses, etc.

JS: Caller believes government isn’t working for her. Legislators COLAs can’t be turned back but JS donated the COLA money. Bigger issue is sense that govt isn’t working for you. Make sure cuts as compassionate and careful as they can be. We need to think about folks like you when making cuts. Efforts to reform h’burg.

SP: house has eliminated about 30M in cost of running the house and 10M in senate. General govt operations will receive a 12% cut if not deeper. Significant cuts. KOZs and the like. Look at Ireland, had an economic resurgence and still feeling it, copied our tax policy of the 1940s and 1950s.

Caller: is this budget going to affect people in low income housing and medical card. Diabetic.

SP: I don’t think so. That isn’t an area where we will see substantial cuts. The welfare system we have was designed for people like our caller. It’s a security net. Prioritize essential govt services. Usually health and safety. You will probably see substantial cuts in discretionary spending such as museum programs, lupus, cancer research. You may see no funding for a year or so and there are consequences for that. I chair the life sciences caucus and many constituents work in that area. There will be consequences.

JS: state will continue to cover areas of care. Should take care of the least and the last and the lost. With recession and more people in trouble this is eating up more and more of budget. Discretionary money being eaten up by those costs. At the end of the day how much is left over for discretionary spending.

Fs: wams [walking around money]

JS: we should not raise taxes to cover earmarks, wams, discretionary spending. If we are going to raise taxes it should be for people like caller. Lots and lots of discretionary fuding, local firehouse, sports teams, but we should not be raising taxes just to pay for wams.

SP: items in there that are traditionally called wams but not really wams, like clean water fund. Water contamination is essential but technically discretionary money. Can see that fund not being available for a year or two but there are consequences. All levels of govt are out of control for spending. Maybe we need to demonstrate to people that we need to curtail spending but they may have to feel some of the pain related to that. People tell him they want state parks close but not theirs.

Caller: look at what is being abused in what is being cut. Need time to transition as programs are being cut.

SP: agree that just like at home can’t adjust spending quickly. Long way out of this.

JS: technically we are required to pass a budget for one year at a time. Need to be responsible for how we program our dollars. We have to be a little careful about making cuts today and see what pain is and then adjust next year. It is naïve to say there won’t be any pain but we need to be careful.

Caller: federal employee. See pa cars leaving from residence or used for personal uses.

SP: people with state cars keep a log with personal uses noted, and those expenses not taken out. All personal mileage must be paid personally.

Caller: prisoners get paid and corrections officers don’t?

SP: not sure which issue he is speaking of. Say a report but am not sure of the details.

Caller: elected officials lost touch with reality

SP: we’re watching the monthly revenues each month. There is no way in our economy that anyone can say what deficit will be. Prefer to take most conservative approach and have excess money in rainy day approach. Revenues around 26.2B.

Fs: governor mentions tax increase

JS: Rep. Kotik (D-45)? And blue dogs expressing views. What is best product to put out for vote on budget

SP: with numbers we have .5 % would not do the job, would still have to cut 1.5B out. If the shortfall is 3.2, and have tax increase, still have to cut 1.5B. how do you raise taxes to that degree in this economy. .5% PIT puts a lot of people out of work.

Caller: watching dcnr hearings, says 36 million visitors to state parks, people not allowed to talk at public meetings.

JS: there’s a lot to unpack in that call. There’s frustration with waste and abuse in h’burg. Need to make sure state funds are reinvested in taxpayers.

SP: there isn’t a line item for waste and abuse that can easily be cut. We can try to identify it. Don’t want to see people go through pain. Until people see that we have disciplined our own house they will continue to see abuse.

Fs: gov made additional cuts

JS: just brings gov’s proposed budget down to revenue number. A lot of pain in state related colleges and universities. People audit books in legislature. There is a $200M reserve in legislature. This should be reinvested in people of Pennsylvania. Important step.

SP: it helps but it doesn’t bring us closer. Choices the gov has made that not everyone agrees with. In gov’s budget sate related colleges do worse than senate version.

Caller: Marcellus shale. Doesn’t want to see natural gas drilling on state lands. Environmental water disaster

JS: we have an extraordinary amount of natural gas reserves in marcellus shale. Companies go to private landowners and ask if they can drill on their land. Working with Dept / Environmental Protection to make sure being done correctly. Tax would bring in around 170M and more next year. People coming in and using our land and water

SP: state park land. We can really take our time and should to make sure we understand the science behind this. One standard for state lands. Make sure we don’t contaminate ground water.

Caller: article in paper on casino spending

JS: this is why we need campaign finance reform. Wants to see caps in state similar to feds. Rule that you can’t put out no bid contract to someone who donated.

Closing:

SP: I think it might be a week before we go back to school. Could go all the way through August.

JS: hope that it doesn’t. at the end of the day people will come together. Want to continue to see us sharpen out pencils. See what works and what doesn’t. it has to be done in a way that everyone comes together.