Shapiro and Steil of Reform Commission on PCN

These are rough notes from PCN's Call-In Show on the Pennsylvania House's Bipartisan Reform Commission which originally aired on January 30, 2007. It is presently available on the PCN website (www.pcntv.com) and I encourage you to watch it yourself to get the full flavor of the conversation. As always I apologize in advance for any errors or misrepresentations. You can send your suggestions to the commission at reform [at] pahouse.net

One observation, both men wore diagonally striped ties. Shapiro's was primarily orange, Steil's was red and gray. This has no significance or political importance; I just noticed it.

PCN Call-In Show
January 30, 2007

Brian Lockman, host

Topic: The PA House’s Bipartisan Reform Commission with co-chairs
Josh Shapiro, Democrat from Montgomery County’s 153rd district
David Steil, Republican from Bucks County’s 31st district

Q: what is the commission about?

JS: bringing transparency and openness, making govt better, Speaker O’Brien created commission, honored to be a co-chair, look at process and broader institutional reforms

Q: Why now

DS: important now especially for younger members, 50 new members, need to play a role in this process,

Q: Shapiro you were a freshman 2 year ago, what is different for new freshman

JS: new day that has dawned, election of Speaker O’Brien, 50+ new members, opportunity to really reform the way PA works, not just internal opportunity, if do jobs better will produce better legislation, better state govt, optimism hope and belief that we can reform the system

Q: David, first elected in 1992,

DS: we had a significant reform effort in 96, group of about 8 legislators, R and D, included a lot of the ideas we have today, approached leaders and colleague, visited editorial boards, got little support, not of interest to media or legislative leadership

Q: Happening because of pay raise?

DS: a stimulus, but new members, issues of concern that people didn’t feel legislature was addressing,

Q: Anyone a stumbling block?

JS; not a particular somebody, a number of somebodies, more of a culture, veterans had become used to a system, comfortable doing business the way it has always been done. The way it had been done not the right way. Can say yes to a new way

Q: What trying to find out with commission hearings?

JS: he and DS co-chairman, equal number of D and R, not minority or majority, equal, bipartisan, hope to give every member of the house a chance to testify before commission, should be complete end of this week, next week will go through proposals, look at member and public proposals, created email address to give public opportunity to send ideas, then move into second phase, to evaluate, then submit to speaker

Q: Have any clout?

DS: yes, because speaker asked for results, never had that before

Q: Anyone against reform?

DS: No but devil in the details

Q: [graphic showing proposed changes] legislative session should be held between 8 a.m. and 11 p.m.

DS: because pay raise happened after 11 p.m. legislators get tired, hard to understand amendments coming at you late at night, danger that drafting of late amendments not entirely correct, have to go back and correct, not as much public scrutiny at 2 a.m.

Q: Why done that way?

JS: bills have to work through committee process, takes time, that’s natural, politicians and businesspeople work better under deadline, budget must be passed in June, other deadlines in fall. Not justifying, not saying it the right way, but that’s how it works. Will have reform process regardless of what this commission does.

Q: What happens when it’s July 3 and late and people say if we work a little longer we can get out sooner

DS: can work late but not well accepted unless can finish up in 30 minutes or so, rules must be suspended, takes 2/3 vote so must be bipartisan

Q: Bills must be on legislative calendar 3 days before vote

JS: members want an opportunity to know what they are going to vote on before going on the floor and seeing it, public should be able to see it also, want time period for members to know what the bills are, and bills listed are bills voted on, now sometimes a “gut and replace” amendment changes bill, want to end practice, give public and members more notice

DS: bills complex, especially amendments added at last minute, if members and public can scrutinize, better legislation

Q: At end of session day, all votes posted on legislative web site

DS: so constituents can see how rep voted

Caller: size of legislative body, suggest two legislators fore each senatorial district

JS: encourages caller to submit proposal, many people talking about reducing size of legislature

DS: save money by reducing number of members, but would it reduce by much? because staff needed to do some of the work legislators done. In House each member rep 60,000, 14th largest number of voters in a legislative district in nation

Caller: thank Speaker O’Brien for leadership. Use of phones while driving, Joe Conti tried to enact bill to cancel car phones

JS: JS’s legislation would ban use of handheld phones while driving, could not pass through both houses in last session

Q: Asks JS to explain role in O’Brien becoming speaker

JS: each party put forth a nominee, Perzel and DeWeese, each party realized could not get enough votes, prior to that JS talked with many D and R in house to put together bipartisan leadership team, through courageous vote of 6 R including DS, able to make history by having majority party with minority speaker, chance to pass good quality legislation, people work across the aisle, JS called O’Brien new years eve, just put kids to bed, could not get it out of his head called O’Brien, DeWeese willing to step aside, now we have this opportunity

Q: Have either spoken to Perzel?

JS: no

DS: no

Caller: state spending caps, each year spending 9% more a year, inflation 3.5% , look at capping? Prop tax reform?

DS: caps on spending not part of commission’s charge, policy item, a lot of interest in looking at spending levels in the state, continuing action this session, on bipartisan conf committee that drafted act 1 last year, we all agree it didn’t go far enough, but it was the only legislation that could get enough votes

Q: changes – all accounts including leadership accounts open? Mentions Rep. DePasquale posting expenses?

JS: DePaquale testified today and others wanting more sunshine, commission will address this issue

Q: Which issues will each dig heels on

JS: we need to create more transparent process, focused on reforms that have better work product to it, not reform for sake of reform, but more input from rank and file members and public

DS: make sure what we do is sustainable in the long run, having a functioning rules committee

C: receives daily legislative action emails, concerned about number of legislators that don’t have email addresses or at least none listed and sufficient staff to receive phone and email and snail mail messages from citizens

DS: every legislator has an email address, maybe its just getting message out

C: thanks,

C: pay raise generating changes, how many people really know how pa state govt works?

JS: people very aware, received emails and phone calls from people all over the state, people are paying attention,

Q: Rules committee, appropriations should not be able to substantively change a bill that has gone through committee

DS: every bill goes through appropriations because they deal with fiscal matters, in past has changed bill that has nothing to do with fiscal matters, prime sponsor may not know or approve, outside scope of rules of house

Q: What is rules committee?

DS: originally established to do what this commission is doing, rules for how legislation passes through house, over the years taken on other responsibilities, all bills returning from senate for concurrence referred to rules comm., amends bills, does not allow opportunity to deal with amendment before vote on floor

C: term limits?

DS; in last 2 years no one has contacted him about term limits , active voter population in his district, in last election 25% of members turned over, he came in with 23 members only 8 still there

JS: opposed to term limits, has not heard from constituents, in states with term limits dangerous cycle with people looking to run in another body when reach limit, lose expertise of members, only staff and lobbyists have expertise. Make sure public more engaged, 50 new members very engaged,

C: Act 1 a joke, two choices personal income tax or earned income tax, should have had a 3rd choice, do nothing at all

DS: Act 1 did what we set out to do, help those most affected by high prop taxes, laid foundation for future tax reform, limitations on school spending, need to find way to find more revenue to fund more prop tax reform, we believe it is always right to always ask people who have to pay how they want the money raised

C: congrats JS on O’Brien, prospects for true prop tax reform

DS: been involved in debate for 10 or 12 years now, a multistep process, no strong support across the state for any one method, realize it’s a series of steps, finding a relief and a formula that works for everyone

JS: how we fund public schools in pa, when Gov. Rendell took office state paid 35 cents / pupil, now up in 40s, but not equitable, Abington gets 12 cents from state, 2 from federal govt, 86 cents made up from local taxpayer in form of prop taxes, when funding stream goes down at fed or state level must be made up locally

C: large bonuses paid to staff based on campaign work and contributions? DeWeese refused to release info, are you concerned?

JS: not aware of specific, those decisions made by leadership, cannot use state money to pay for campaign work, no knowledge of what transpired, knows leader DeWeese and he knows difference between campaign and other work

Q: What is deputy speaker?

JS: more responsibility and help be a bridge between speaker an drank and file members

C: why pa doesn’t have open primary

DS: don’t know legislative history of this. Only members of party can vote for candidate in that party in primary, generally believed that political party can select candidates for their party

JS: agree, should make it easier for 3rd party candidates but parties should reserve right to elect their party’s representative

C: funds going to schools for salaries not the kids

Ds: major accomplishments of act 1, spending limits for school districts, they don’t like it but we’ve done that

Q: House voted to eliminate ghost voting

JS: house voted on temporary rules, to serve until new rules voted on in march. Eliminated voting by proxy, changed committee membership so the difference between majority and minority parties reduced from 4 to 3 (16/12 now 16/13)

DS: gone back to pre-2005 rules, member in their seat to vote, in dc when vote announced a 15 window to vote, pa house doesn’t have a process

C: state retiree, smoking regulations, would you support

JS: Gov has proposed as part of health care package, would vote for it

DS: co-sponsor of bill in last session, would support

C: lack of public trust by general assembly’s pension increase, judicial pay raise

DS: pension issue affected all state employees, in hindsight that action at that time things looked pretty good, believed that was a way to keep qualified people, a few low return years, now returns doing better, did allow pension contributions by employees to drop to zero, have now set a higher base to contributions, baby boomers beginning to retire, will no longer contribute to system, we expect by 2012 will have handled that issue

JS: when pay raise repealed it was intended to repeal for everyone

C: prop tax

C: open primaries, improving ballot access in pa,

JS: legislation to reduce number of signatures required to get on ballot, third parties must get more signaturess, should be a little higher because they don’t have a primary but not be so high

C: Act 1, slap in the face to prop owners and taxpayers, would you back a binding referendum to fund public education by sales tax

DS: that is where we are headed if we are going to eliminate prop taxes, tried last year but did not have 102 votes

JS: need to look at formula to reduce taxes and not transfer from one tax to another

C: prop tax replace with combination of sales and income tax

Q: When will the commission meet next

JS: meet this week, go over proposals next week

Q: How long in business

DS: this entire session because adopt permanent rules in March but beyond that will continue to work on issues